Can the Ormeau Baths Gallery be saved?

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Permalink Reply by sam fleming on October 27, 2011 at 13:01

Art in northern ireland is still catching up I feel....we still have the '..''he did well considering where he came from..'' mentality .. there is talent out there but we try too hard to be 'contemporary'...

you know there is great contemporary painting out there!!! There is wonderful contemporary sculpture!!......but a whole section of creativity is sidelined becuase of what we THINK is 'contemporary' art.... our notions  are still somewhat dated in some areas and for me a number of galleries come into this catagory.

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Permalink Reply by Royce Harper on October 27, 2011 at 16:06

 

Almost all notions of contemporary art in Ulster are dated, transitory, fashion-based and relying on third and fourth hand recommends. I don't belive anywhere in the UK, or rep' of Ireland is the abyss between doers and administrators so wide! The cannot do's versus the creators. It has long been the same. It is all about power. The powerful keeping a fence round everything they believe they hold, to keep the powerless & disempowered out, or at very least having no chance of obtaining power.

On top of which is a very recognisible 'petty bourgeois' attitude towards artists, so the most boring, straight and inoffensive ones get wall space, written about and promoted. Conservatives rule both in our councils, our art galleries, our government and most definitely in arts administration. They, of course perpetuate this stance, and employ the same sort of people to keep it cosy. The history of this goes further back than the episode of not employing the poet, writer, artist John Hewitt at The Ulster Museum, in the main because he was local, so therefore had a cheek even applying for such a prestigious post! Tight-arsed inverted snobbery has held it's ground pretty much ever since.

No section of UK or Ireland is so tragically misruled. This is unfortunately our fault. In that the very people who put the idiots in power again and again, think they have really no power, and vote with their prejudices, fears and dogma. This is changing very slowly. On top is the sad repitition of a 'last corner of empire' mentality. When there is not a true sense of self-worth from the Gallery Directors and boards, then they inevitably ape what they believe to be the hippest thing hailing from London! That's usually ten years out of date, if not more!

There are indeed such amazing and wonderful talents from, living and working in the north of Ireland. Lack of any good PR agents, Marketing managers and promotors means their work goes nowhere fast! Mr Bradley has to be the best, living example of the success of management, PR and marketing! Regardless of quality or originality.

Until working artists in Ulster make a concerted effort to group together, making a real, firm, lobbying group to promote their art collectively and individually, they will remain marginalised, belittled and in the main ignored. Over-sized egos, diffidence and a distinctly juvenile attitude to this idea means they remain islands in a fast flowing river.

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Permalink Reply by Bronagh Lawson on October 27, 2011 at 16:47

Royce can I pick up on the PR aspect there in your reply. What frustrates me is that many people do not understand PR and how is has swarmed over our local media to such an extent that very little in terms of actual proper coverage gets into mainstream media.This feeds the current illusion of success / failure of individuals and the wheels on the bus go round and round .Then of course there is no proper critical writing aroundabout  what is going on. All we have is the Ulster Tatler ;-/.  I do belive artists need a lobby group  as well as lobbying training, something I suggested in a VAI article recently. I've never met a more creative but marginalised group of people. Not in all my 13 years of development work. Yet there is so much potential.

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Permalink Reply by colin campbell on October 27, 2011 at 21:50

i think the word artist is to much encompassing a description ..a painter who wishes to paint their thoughts on a canvas is not the same in essence as one who wishes to paint others thoughts on a gable wall or similar  . Yet both are artists . Like comparing lester piggot with jackie stewart ,, they both race  .

its hard to see though how public funds could be accurately aimed at those that are not community based .

 

Within any "give money to an artist" scheme there will always be some one left out .. so does that mean self support is always truest way to create things .

Some one always will miss the boat .

Its not that unreasonable that if you receive a little you have to give a little .. surely ?

 

 

 

 

Paul McCarroll said:

"I fear we are turning young artists into psuedo - community workers" > this!

 

I hate that whole art needs to be community based or doing something in the community bollocks.
There is rightfully a place for that but funding should not be based on it, it should be based on the merits of the artist who sometimes like myself, prefer/need to be cut off from social / group action to immerse in ideas of my own rather than pander to a social agenda. Let the artists make art and give them some help with that / a place to show it and let community benefit from seeing honest artwork with some direct soul rather than something patronising that has pandered in anyway to the agendas of some fucking committee.

I probably came across like a selfish dick there, but I keep myself to myself and try to stay true to myself.
Maybe an example will help.
Can you imagine - say - Francis Bacon. He's showing some promise but needs some money to paint.
What sort of work would he have achieved if he had to follow some sort of limited cross community agenda and put this across on an ACNI application. We might have lost a whole period of his work.
I'm sure this happens, just like I'm sure most of the muck in private galleries is made to order on production lines of self denying sell outs to themselves to fit the current 'trends'.

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Permalink Reply by Royce Harper on October 27, 2011 at 21:51

The extremely bad experience with the previous incumbent Curator/Director certainly made a deep immpression of a negative kind with ACNI. No doubt this influenced their option to hire another! For both monetary and aesthetic reasons. Yet no gallery, like no ship, can run without a captain! It is in the hands of those least qualified to do so, to interview and choose a decent Director, though if pressed, they would tell you the complete opposite! So, to use the same analogy, OBG has run itself aground, bereft of a Helmsman!

Bronagh Lawson said:

Just to come back to something that Alice mentioned about curators. It is my understand that OBG has been operating without a curator for some time and selection for exhibitions was put forward by members of the Board. Correct me anyone if you know me to be wrong.

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Permalink Reply by Paul McCarroll on October 27, 2011 at 22:02

its like that came out of my head but actually being able to communicate in an educated manner.
thanks Royce


Royce Harper said:

 

Almost all notions of contemporary art in Ulster are dated, transitory, fashion-based and relying on third and fourth hand recommends. I don't belive anywhere in the UK, or rep' of Ireland is the abyss between doers and administrators so wide! The cannot do's versus the creators. It has long been the same. It is all about power. The powerful keeping a fence round everything they believe they hold, to keep the powerless & disempowered out, or at very least having no chance of obtaining power.

On top of which is a very recognisible 'petty bourgeois' attitude towards artists, so the most boring, straight and inoffensive ones get wall space, written about and promoted. Conservatives rule both in our councils, our art galleries, our government and most definitely in arts administration. They, of course perpetuate this stance, and employ the same sort of people to keep it cosy. etc etc

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Permalink Reply by colin campbell on October 27, 2011 at 22:04

Yet even with the luxury of money being no object to choose the best captain from all those available and to attain the best person possible to steer the ship .. things can always go wrong .. !! ( that s h i p ...)

Its not a straight road for any business and a gallery is a much more abstract craft to steer than most ships on most high seas ..

gluggggggg........!

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Permalink Reply by Paul McCarroll on October 27, 2011 at 22:17

bend over to pick up the carrot?

actually by producing art and allowing it to be shown surely we are enriching society anyway?
and more so if that art is honest and heartfelt and not pried out of us by the coercion of a means of survival.

and also I'm sure that there are many artists who are excluded from showing here that sell their work overseas or have foreign clients.(*cough*)
the money comes in from abroad and gets spent here boosting the local economy by buying sausage rolls at the local bakery.

Some artists are never going to get past the wall of fake offence here.
I'd love to be able to spend a year working on a show that would have a decent exposure in Belfast. I'd need some backup for that, but I don't think they;'d want to pay my paint + sausage roll bills when the exhibition would be about the futility, greed, hate and negativity in their collective religions in all it's visceral stinking hypocritical glory.

colin campbell said:

Its not that unreasonable that if you receive a little you have to give a little .. surely ?

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Permalink Reply by Royce Harper on October 27, 2011 at 22:19

in print media, we have both The Sun and The Times, the Guardian and the Daily Star! We can make an informed choice there as to what paper to buy, if indeed we buy any! PR and marketing are the same. Some PR is a form of money-heavy bullying which does indeed push all else to the margins. Yet you must admit that the two main media companies here, BBC NI and UTV, love to get behind anything that already has success written large upon it, or looks as if it's got wheels already!

One of the primary reasons why I made the artery> programme was to advance intelligent, critical reviews. Yet after almost four years, all I got was envy, jealousy, annoyance and downright hatred for 'daring' to play in their playground, for daring to attempt to do what they do, without taking the same, known route to do so. So was marginalised.

My consolation was my audience who let me know how much they loved the show, and how throughly different and refreshing it was compared with any other local television programme. Another piece of information that fell into my hands, and that made me smile, I was informed that more than one BBC NI researcher was put onto the job of watching my arts programme, making notes, lifting ideas, visual, filmic and aesthetic.....to re-use by the Beeb at a later date, slightly changed!

As you say there is no more marginalised bunch of creative people than artists from Ulster, yet they remain so. But it is, I suggest their lack of vision for the power of collectivisation and lobbying that keeps them at the same low level.

That wonderful scene in The Life Of Brian, where the members of the Judean People's Front are meeting and arguing, mainly about the Romans. "we hate the Romans" but even more.... "we hate The People's Front Of Judea" reminds me of many artists here, they complain no end about ACNI, lack of funding, support and care, yet they won't talk to each other, or communicate on any sort of adult, comparitive and empathetic manner! I really want to say to so many "grow up!"
Bronagh Lawson said:

Royce can I pick up on the PR aspect there in your reply. What frustrates me is that many people do not understand PR and how is has swarmed over our local media to such an extent that very little in terms of actual proper coverage gets into mainstream media.This feeds the current illusion of success / failure of individuals and the wheels on the bus go round and round .Then of course there is no proper critical writing aroundabout  what is going on. All we have is the Ulster Tatler ;-/.  I do belive artists need a lobby group  as well as lobbying training, something I suggested in a VAI article recently. I've never met a more creative but marginalised group of people. Not in all my 13 years of development work. Yet there is so much potential.

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Permalink Reply by Paul McCarroll on October 27, 2011 at 22:24

the ulster tatler is a sack of s+++

I love the way it says on the cover - read by 1zillion people
that must be if every tatty copy they dump around hospital waiting rooms its read by every germ ridden soul in the country

the only people who buy it are the 1000's of tipsy potato heads photographed for being in a room with a photographer

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Permalink Reply by Alice Burns on October 28, 2011 at 21:55

http://www.artscouncil-ni.org/news/2011/new28102011a.html

 

Closed today

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Permalink Reply by sam fleming on October 29, 2011 at 7:28

sad to see the loss of a venue when we need as many as possible...however the existence of venues should not be the driving force for the making of art...no more than the existence of  CDs should be the reason to make music.

...lets make some more music !!!!

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